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Yorkshire Rugby Forum

General Rugby => Other Senior Rugby => Topic started by: Rob13 on December 03, 2019, 10:30:39 AM

Title: Transgender Players in the female game
Post by: Rob13 on December 03, 2019, 10:30:39 AM
Question for people, my company sponsor a player who is new to the game and really enjoying herself (open age). Speaking with her a couple of days ago I was perplexed to say the least to hear that players have been asked on two occassions this season if they were happy to play against sides with males transitioning to being female. By all accounts the onus is being put on the players to make the decision as to whether they are happy with it? Seems an awful lot of responsibility to place on players and a sign the RFU don't want the blame landing on their door should something go wrong.

I understand its a minefield this subject but after reading about the MMA transgender fighter Fallon Fox who broke her/his opponents skull I find the above concerning.
Title: Re: Transgender Players in the female game
Post by: backrowbandit on December 03, 2019, 02:24:21 PM
As you say a bloody minefield....I bet I'm like most people and wish we didn't even have to think about things like this at all!!!
Title: Re: Transgender Players in the female game
Post by: BenFairclough on December 03, 2019, 05:37:58 PM
If they're born a man they should play mens rugby. Im 26 i cant just identify as being a 13 year old and play for the under 14's
Title: Re: Transgender Players in the female game
Post by: porkies on December 03, 2019, 06:11:51 PM
I know this will sound awful, but would a transgender really want to play rugby...??
Title: Re: Transgender Players in the female game
Post by: Rob13 on December 03, 2019, 06:17:33 PM
I know this will sound awful, but would a transgender really want to play rugby...??

Apparently so.

Someone suffered a broken leg in one of these games and by all accounts one of these trans players was involved in the tackle...it’s rightly got our sponsored player thinking and by all accounts no one dare say anything.

Title: Re: Transgender Players in the female game
Post by: Master_Knowledge on December 03, 2019, 06:22:46 PM
If they are that bothered about having somewhere to perform and Express themselves I'm sure PT Barnum would welcome them with open arms!

Utterly ridiculous! How long until we have blokes thinking hold on I'll never play for England but if I say I'm trans I could win 100 caps as a woman? A line needs drawing on that very quickly.
Title: Re: Transgender Players in the female game
Post by: Dan Nulty on December 03, 2019, 09:44:04 PM
There was an article on BBC sport about this a few months ago. I think the club in question was in Wales and the transitioned female in question was nicknamed 'the beast' by her team mates and often completely annihilated her opposite number tackling them.

I have absolutely no issue with people deciding if they want to transition, whatever floats your boat and makes you happy. However, I have a real issue with them then competing as a woman as this can have a serious consequence. Completely agree that it is for the RFU to step in here and take the decision out of the clubs hands. The issue is, can you imagine the backlash from the bohemian snowflakes about descrimination if the RFU said no. None of whom will ever have played the game or understand the potential impacts on naturally born women.

There is a hurdler in the US who transitioned, was ranked over 200 nationally as a man, transitioned and 12 months later, running slower was ranked 3rd nationally. You will get people who do it on purpose.
Title: Re: Transgender Players in the female game
Post by: The Nomad on December 03, 2019, 09:53:19 PM
Really not that hard to find if you bother looking...

https://www.englandrugby.com/about-rfu/rfu-policies/transgender-policy
Title: Re: Transgender Players in the female game
Post by: Dan Nulty on December 03, 2019, 10:12:46 PM
Yes, but I would question then why a club is seeking permission from another club if they have been cleared by the rfu to play? How often do they get tested? Are they asking permission because they haven't been cleared or is it that they haven't been reducing their testosterone levels? Or are they just being polite?

I still don't think reducing testosterone reduces the physical impacts of their stature or nature.

There will be a serious incident at some point.
Title: Re: Transgender Players in the female game
Post by: avinastella on December 03, 2019, 11:47:41 PM
Yes, but I would question then why a club is seeking permission from another club if they have been cleared by the rfu to play? How often do they get tested? Are they asking permission because they haven't been cleared or is it that they haven't been reducing their testosterone levels? Or are they just being polite?

I still don't think reducing testosterone reduces the physical impacts of their stature or nature.

There will be a serious incident at some point.
I'd say there are enough examples to confirm that.
That thing in athletics, Cycling seniors sprinting. One the other day for handball. Twice the bloody size of the 'true' female competitors.
Title: Re: Transgender Players in the female game
Post by: Rob13 on December 04, 2019, 09:51:14 AM
Correct as Joe Rogan says the bone density, the physical size doesn’t  reduce in these athletes and they are capable of causing serious damage to born females.
Title: Re: Transgender Players in the female game
Post by: Rob13 on December 04, 2019, 09:52:41 AM
Really not that hard to find if you bother looking...

https://www.englandrugby.com/about-rfu/rfu-policies/transgender-policy

Read it and it’s garbled lancashire in my opinion.To put the onus on the players is unfair and absolving the RFU of any blame.
Title: Re: Transgender Players in the female game
Post by: Billy36 on December 05, 2019, 08:34:04 AM
The RFU document puts the onus on the transitioning player to provide proof of approval from the RFU and ongoing compliance. In the case of male transition to female, as stated at the start of the thread by Rob13, the player must have approval from the RFU and must keep testosterone below 5nmol/L in their blood serum - done by taking hormone suppressant medication.

It is not discriminatory to ask that player to provide proof of the RFU certification now that the RFU document legally spells out the requirements. Much in the way a  person claiming to be a doctor of medicine cannot be ‘offended’ by being asked to produce proof of GMC registration by a patient. Provide the proof and off you go.

Unfortunately, if there is going to be an issue with persons who’ve gained structural density whilst male prior to transitioning, such as injuries to born females, then this will have to be addressed by the RFU in the future. Female rugby is at the mercy of the current RFU precedent. The RFU will have to alter and answer the rules should issues arise at anytime.


In short: not up to the players. Transitioning person has to provide certification from RFU and game goes on if they do. If they don’t/can’t/won’t, then they should not be allowed to play.
Title: Re: Transgender Players in the female game
Post by: Red Horseman on December 05, 2019, 08:51:49 AM
From the other angle, are there any transgender players in the male game? Just asking....
Title: Re: Transgender Players in the female game
Post by: Billy36 on December 05, 2019, 09:13:15 AM
Considering all a person transitioning to male needs to do is write a letter saying they identify as a man, in the RFU policy, we may never know...
Title: Re: Transgender Players in the female game
Post by: Used To Be Fast Once on December 05, 2019, 02:12:28 PM
Just a thought In terms of equality should there be no male female sport ?  Especially proffesional sport
Title: Re: Transgender Players in the female game
Post by: Sail By on December 05, 2019, 03:00:44 PM
That is exactly what is going to happen with all this.
Transgender will force this to the detriment of Women rugby.