$txt['mentions'] = 'Mentions'; $txt['scheduled_task_removeMentions'] = 'Remove seen mentions'; $txt['scheduled_task_desc_removeMentions'] = 'Automatically removes seen mentions older than the specified days'; Brexit

Poll

What is your preferred option NOW.

The current government proposed deal with EU
Leaving with no deal and relying on WTO terms?
Attempted renegotiation to improve deal?
Stay in on current terms somehow or other?

Author Topic: Brexit  (Read 3138 times)

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Offline neverplayedstandoff

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2018, 07:22:39 PM »
Tut tut tut Divide ( aptly named ) or maybe a better name might be Divisive.
Anyone can cut and paste (and leave bits out)
Look at www.ilovetheeu.co.uk.

Look familiar??
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Offline avinastella

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2018, 07:44:19 PM »
I thought you had an alternative
There in  lies the problem.
People looking for alternatives.
That is, ignoring the result of the referendum and wanting to impose something that wasn’t an option on the voting slip.
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he found his smack had talc in it.

Offline omigidiant

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2018, 08:32:53 PM »
The problem and therefore the answer is a multi-faceted one but the ultimate problem is the people we elect to parliament. In all parties, with the very odd exceptions, all are now career politicians with absolutely no care or respect for the people they are supposed to be representing. Irrespective of the verbal spin that politicians vomit at every opportunity the reality is that politicians have forgotten, or in most cases never had the intent, to do the one thing that they were elected for, and that is to put forward and act on the views of their constituents even if they differ from their own personal views. The prime concern of these politicians is to ensure their own private agendas come to fruition (whatever they may be) and in many ways that makes our parliament now just as corrupt as the many 3rd world countries that we often criticise for corruption, the only difference is the subtle form that our sort of corruption takes.

For what it’s worth my take on Brexit is that we should have tried to get a reciprocal trade deal that takes back all the things we currently don’t have control over, does not tie us into the EU or them to us and if that is not possible then trading on WTO terms is not the end of the world. I don’t think the EU ever had any intention of ensuring such a trade deal would come about but our politicians were too stupid to see that. As someone who worked for many years in the export business WTO terms hold no fears for the manufacturers and exporters of this country irrespective of what they say in public. As long as they know the rules they are working to they will circumnavigate any initial problems. Yes there will be some initial disruption but we have enough clever people in this country to make most things work to our advantage but we need to be making the decisions not the EU who will simply try to bring us down at every opportunity.

I regret to say Brexit, as most people perceive it, isn’t going to happen. Most of the problems this country has are due to the short term, short sighted actions of politicians over the last 30 to 40 years each one compounding the problems caused by their predecessors. I feared for the young of this country as a full member of the EU but can’t now see that they have any better future outside it in the forms that are currently being proposed, and in fact they maybe even worse. The Brexit fiasco is just an extension of the way our society has developed and sadly our society is broken and there is no mechanism to mend it.

The only solace I take from all this is a very selfish personal one and that is that all my family have over recent years moved to the Antipodes leaving me and Mrs Omigidiant as the last members here in the UK. I know they have their problems down-under and it’s not all milk and honey but they are not on the vast scale we have here in the UK, and whilst the separation from family is difficult I know that my grandchildren are growing up in a far safer, less bigoted country that tries to protect it’s people and is giving them a far superior quality of life compared to here in the UK. Sad to have to say it, but true.
Never argue with an idiot, he'll bring you down to his level and beat you with experience!

Offline leg

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2018, 10:23:17 PM »
Tut tut tut Divide ( aptly named ) or maybe a better name might be Divisive.
Anyone can cut and paste (and leave bits out)
Look at www.ilovetheeu.co.uk.

Look familiar??

It doesn’t take much googling to check out the “facts” does it?

Offline backrowbandit

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2018, 11:21:09 PM »
As far as I can tell I cannot see any Brexit solution which will not necessitate some form of border between NI and the ROI.
The huge contradiction is that NI is part of the UK and the GF agreement prevents a border with ROI. Within the EU then no problem. Outside the EU then there is absolutely no possible way for this to continue without a customs arrangement/union.

Therefore Brexit would be quite straightforward if a) we let NI go or b) we accept a border between NI and ROI (two sovereign countries).

I am not saying i want or don't want any of that ....but that in a nutshell is what is preventing Brexit.
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Offline omigidiant

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2018, 11:36:19 PM »
Why not put the backstop between ROI and the European mainland and let the Irish control the backstop in the same way they want Britain to control backstop between NI and UK mainland. It's the same difference but I bet the EU wouldn't want it.
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Offline backrowbandit

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2018, 12:00:15 AM »
Because they haven't chosen to leave us.
Loving all rugby but especially at grassroots level.

Offline backrowbandit

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2018, 12:02:40 AM »
Forget the backstop. How do you have two separate custom areas and no border? I'm not partisan to either camp I just can't see how you can have a border and no border at the same time?
Loving all rugby but especially at grassroots level.

Offline leg

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2018, 09:36:44 AM »
As far as I can tell I cannot see any Brexit solution which will not necessitate some form of border between NI and the ROI.
The huge contradiction is that NI is part of the UK and the GF agreement prevents a border with ROI. Within the EU then no problem. Outside the EU then there is absolutely no possible way for this to continue without a customs arrangement/union.

Therefore Brexit would be quite straightforward if a) we let NI go or b) we accept a border between NI and ROI (two sovereign countries).

I am not saying i want or don't want any of that ....but that in a nutshell is what is preventing Brexit.

And we’ve all known that from the very beginning. Neither a) or b) will be acceptable to the loyalist population of NI.

The other option is to stay in the SM and CU - which means Freedom of Movement, ie Norway +.

And what’s the point of that?

Offline leg

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2018, 09:39:28 AM »
The problem and therefore the answer is a multi-faceted one but the ultimate problem is the people we elect to parliament. In all parties, with the very odd exceptions, all are now career politicians with absolutely no care or respect for the people they are supposed to be representing. Irrespective of the verbal spin that politicians vomit at every opportunity the reality is that politicians have forgotten, or in most cases never had the intent, to do the one thing that they were elected for, and that is to put forward and act on the views of their constituents even if they differ from their own personal views. The prime concern of these politicians is to ensure their own private agendas come to fruition (whatever they may be) and in many ways that makes our parliament now just as corrupt as the many 3rd world countries that we often criticise for corruption, the only difference is the subtle form that our sort of corruption takes.

For what it’s worth my take on Brexit is that we should have tried to get a reciprocal trade deal that takes back all the things we currently don’t have control over, does not tie us into the EU or them to us and if that is not possible then trading on WTO terms is not the end of the world. I don’t think the EU ever had any intention of ensuring such a trade deal would come about but our politicians were too stupid to see that. As someone who worked for many years in the export business WTO terms hold no fears for the manufacturers and exporters of this country irrespective of what they say in public. As long as they know the rules they are working to they will circumnavigate any initial problems. Yes there will be some initial disruption but we have enough clever people in this country to make most things work to our advantage but we need to be making the decisions not the EU who will simply try to bring us down at every opportunity.

I regret to say Brexit, as most people perceive it, isn’t going to happen. Most of the problems this country has are due to the short term, short sighted actions of politicians over the last 30 to 40 years each one compounding the problems caused by their predecessors. I feared for the young of this country as a full member of the EU but can’t now see that they have any better future outside it in the forms that are currently being proposed, and in fact they maybe even worse. The Brexit fiasco is just an extension of the way our society has developed and sadly our society is broken and there is no mechanism to mend it.

The only solace I take from all this is a very selfish personal one and that is that all my family have over recent years moved to the Antipodes leaving me and Mrs Omigidiant as the last members here in the UK. I know they have their problems down-under and it’s not all milk and honey but they are not on the vast scale we have here in the UK, and whilst the separation from family is difficult I know that my grandchildren are growing up in a far safer, less bigoted country that tries to protect it’s people and is giving them a far superior quality of life compared to here in the UK. Sad to have to say it, but true.

Yup - this.

Offline Used To Be Fast Once

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2018, 12:30:12 PM »
I thought you had an alternative
There in  lies the problem.
People looking for alternatives.
That is, ignoring the result of the referendum and wanting to impose something that wasn’t an option on the voting slip.
e

I voted to leave knowing that we would then have to negotiate a deal or have no deal at all. Trying to please everyone is the problem

Offline Used To Be Fast Once

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2018, 12:36:18 PM »
Maybe a solution is leave with no deal. Then negotiate one  pay nothing and see how it affects the rest of Europe we pay more in than we get out and import more than we export .  short term pain for long term gain.

Offline avinastella

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2018, 12:46:29 PM »
I thought you had an alternative
There in  lies the problem.
People looking for alternatives.
That is, ignoring the result of the referendum and wanting to impose something that wasn’t an option on the voting slip.
e

I voted to leave knowing that we would then have to negotiate a deal or have no deal at all. Trying to please everyone is the problem
And there isn’t a Government that's ever managed that.
Yet the silly bint thinks now was a good time to try.
Madness.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 06:51:59 AM by avinastella »
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he found his smack had talc in it.

Offline leg

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Offline His Lordship

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2018, 04:33:44 PM »
I don't care what sort of Brexit happens, provided there is a Brexit. The whole thing has been shambolically handled, with personal agendas taking priority over national interests.

A referendum is different to an election. It is, arguably, the only true reflection of what a nation as a whole thinks. In an election, people revert to traditional party allegiances, as the SNP tub thumpers found out very quickly. An election is less democratic than a referendum.

We had a referendum. A majority voted to leave. We must leave. Anything else risks producing a generation or more thinking "why should I bother voting any more". That's the bigger picture, which I suspect lies behind Comrade Corbyn's lack of any significant action.

I blame Cameron anyway.

Got to agree  8)