$txt['mentions'] = 'Mentions'; $txt['scheduled_task_removeMentions'] = 'Remove seen mentions'; $txt['scheduled_task_desc_removeMentions'] = 'Automatically removes seen mentions older than the specified days'; The bigger picture

Author Topic: The bigger picture  (Read 6292 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline just passing by

  • One of the boys
  • *
  • Posts: 138
    • View Profile
Re: The bigger picture
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2019, 07:31:44 PM »
In lots of threads it invariably leads onto who is getting paid and who is absolutely squeaky clean regardless of where it starts, so I wonder if clubs would consider adopting the historical cricket formula of Gentlemen and Players. The Players being the professionals. The differentiation would be quite simple as it was then - in the programme the Gentlemen had their initials in front of their surname and the players afterwards. Problem sorted?
Age is a high price to pay for maturity

Offline Sycamore

  • Legend
  • ***
  • Posts: 550
    • View Profile
Re: The bigger picture
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2019, 10:14:40 PM »
Some very overly emotional reactions to a legitimate question here.

From what I hear it isn't local players that are giving the team the edge is it sustainable?Probably not.

Offline Dan Nulty

  • Forum old hand
  • **
  • Posts: 430
    • View Profile
Re: The bigger picture
« Reply #62 on: January 14, 2019, 08:01:15 AM »
For me, you have to get the rugby on the pitch sorted first.  You are then more likely to attract and raise the investment needed to improve facilities. Personally, I think it arrogant to criticise any club's facilities or lack of. We at Grovians get comments and put downs all the time.  We are only 11 years old, I sincerely doubt any club in the country started with a full suite of facilities before putting a team together.

The people criticising often haven't a clue:

1. The amount of work and costs needed to put effective plans in place including planning permissions etc

2. The amount of work needed to raise the funds necessary to do that work.

3. The amount of time required to do the above 2 things, often by volunteers who work full time and have families.

Well done to Moortown on putting some decent sides together and above all else, playing good rugby, there is nothing worse than watching 9 man rugby that I seem to see plenty of.

Just wish one or two of them would stay a bit more humble but we are in the age of the keyboard warrior I suppose. 

Offline sliotar

  • Forum old hand
  • **
  • Posts: 400
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: The bigger picture
« Reply #63 on: January 14, 2019, 09:06:43 AM »
Having played Saturday it does take the gloss off the win when keyboard warriors act up but ignorance of youth and first beer of the year may play a part I guess. like most things in life it takes year to build a good image/reputation and only a moment to destroy. Some ppl will be reminded of that this week in training!!

The facilities have improved vastly over the years I've been at the club and year on year more money is plugged into improvements. Bar the odd weekend the function room is booked out for parties, weddings etc.. and this money is fed back into the club. Changing rooms improved (home ones anyway!), function room revamped, members bar improved. The pitch has suffered from the dry summer like most clubs but in general it's a million times better than it was 5 years back when it had a slope akin to old brods. Squash courts have been replaced by a crossfit gym, all resulting in improvements to the club that may not to obvious from the outside looking in. We have also gone from bare 20 senior player squad into 3 seniors most weeks and more importantly the junior section was relaunched along with a girls team, all of which had disappeared 6/7 years ago. The dream is sustainability whether that be Y1 or Nat 2. the money has been spent on bringing in top coaches who also attract players. We would've begged fourth team uni players to come only 3 seasons back . Now the students come to us trying to break into the team which was a point touched on by intense. 

Yes, we have a link up with a NZ club, but they also have 4 of our players playing for them in the summer and some have stayed out there. The same set up a lot of clubs have at this level. This year we took the option to not bring anyone over and give the colts coming through and younger lads a go. The squad this year is 95% the same as last year with the addition or a player coach, some long term injuries returning and a few colts step up.

Offline Ribbflagman

  • A little respect please...
  • ******
  • Posts: 1560
    • View Profile
Re: The bigger picture
« Reply #64 on: January 14, 2019, 12:16:54 PM »
Have kept away from this thread until now. It seems that there is,a lot of antagonism towards Moortown ( undoubtedly brought on by moronic posts from some of their posters).
Whilst they are undoubtedly a club on the up they would do well to remember from whence they came. Humility is a quality that people remember. Other clubs have done extremely  well( Scarbs and selby are the best example I know) but despite their success remain good people and supportive of other less well supported enterprises. Only 5 years ago Moortown were bought out of bankruptcy by CTJ. No problem with that and good on him. However, admitting that someone forgot to press a switch  so people could have a warm shower seems to me that a small investment in backroom staff would reap dividends towards restoring their somewhat damaged reputation.
And yes some money investing into changing facilities is overdue.
Good luck anyway.


Offline carlthewlisjohns

  • Finding my feet
  • Posts: 56
  • Gender: Male
  • Rugby is always the winner
    • View Profile
Re: The bigger picture
« Reply #65 on: January 14, 2019, 04:21:30 PM »
From what I witnessed today, Moortown will finish top of the league and based on form, that’s a true reflection of the league. However, this leads to a bigger question as to... what is the point?

Whilst I can appreciate the on field abilities of their players. The reality is the invest has been mis-spent.

The facilities for players are shocking. From what I saw the changing rooms are equivalent to a Yorkshire 4 side in 2002. You can’t swing a cat in the bar... and it would appear even their own players do not come for a beer after. And if they do, there’s certainly a lack of Moortown Shirt and Ties on show.

So whilst I reiterate - Heath we’re out beaten today. In the grand scheme of things - Is Moortown actually a rugby club that’s sustainable over the next 5 years? What is being done for the community?

I feel somewhat silly as I didn't see this post as the start of the thread, I just wanted to thank Heath for the game and apologise for the ten minutes it took me to work out why no water was coming out of the showers. The "cynics" amongst our members would suggest having lots of naked men chasing after me to put their showers on was nothing more than a devious ploy  8)

Sadly, I think this will be my last post on here as I suspect that regardless of what actually occurs in our pre match hospitality, how well the pitch holds up or how fabulous the Theakston's and Guinness is (The Coors not so much), there will never be a lot of love for Moortown on these pages, not helped sometimes by the posts of some of our supporters and worse still the people that can't help but bite.

That being said I would love this opportunity to put right a few misconceptions. I became coach of Moortown in 2007, I was as unpopular as our pitch and it is a fair statement that our players then were as good with their fists as they were at Rugby. That reputation suited my singular view on the game and we were a match made in heaven. Off the field however and despite having to open the windows to let in some heat Moortown was the friendliest club I have ever been in, just my personal opinion.

When the situation arose in 2013, Curtis and I put our money where our mouth was and invested heavily in the Club. Just to be clear,  ;D, That meant buying the land, clearing any debts and investing into the club rooms and pitch. The Land was then leased back to the members for 1000 years at £1 per year. Curtis and I had a quick meeting with the players and supporters and got to work. £70k later on the pitch (trust me it was bad) and a fair few quid installing a new kitchen, electrics (shower pumps included), big TV screens, internet and Sky we feel it is a far cry from what it looked like "back in the day".

So to answer the critique of "miss spent" - A touch over £100k on the pitch and club house has seen us grow from 1.5 senior teams to nearly four, six junior sides to seventeen and three girls teams added to the mix. Moortown is like many clubs, a real collection of different people that come together on a weekend to play Rugby, nothing more and nothing less. Those that run successful businesses will know that often pure square footage equates to revenue ability. Our 2.7 acres which includes the pitch allows us to run a club free of debt with decent facilities but most certainly doesn't pay players, we couldn't afford it even if we wanted to. I know the rumours that go round and believe me a fair few players from neighbouring clubs often call me pre-season asking what would Town think of them joining but once they realise it will cost them £15 per month the texts stop.

That got me thinking about actual statistics (it has been an easy Monday)....... I think when a sugar daddy or mummy want to bank roll a sports team, don't they see instant results? Then of course if the funding stops or the limit is reached they stagnate and consequently fall? There a couple of clubs where this has happened in the Yorkshire region.

In our case, we wanted to create a sustainable pathway for junior rugby but develop any player that is here or walks through the door. As such we invested in coaches, a gym, a pitch, food and great beer. We had 60 training on Thursday, all of whom were fed after they finished, investment miss spent? 13 players dropped down to the third team, all regular second team players as they didn't train! I am sure Julie was glad they didn't as feeding 73 would have had me shot! First and Second teams wear shirt and tie post match as they did Saturday, our Marauders wear a Polo Shirt as they were sponsored to do so. I think the originator of this post must not have seen both sets of players in the "other bar" sat down together, all in No.1's sharing a beer and chatting after an epic battle. He also can't have been invited by the Heath committee for their pre-match Chicken casserole in our small but tidy VIP bar, again investment we see well spent. 

I made reference in my post about the lad behind the bar playing for Yorkshire U18's, we've had two this season, one of which played against Heath on the wing and both products of our junior section. Our improvement has been gradual, like our investment, increased numbers and subsequent reinvestment, no "quick fix" here at Town. The way and style we play is NOT down to over recruitment of over paid mercenaries but a well drilled group of lads backed up by youth coming through and the odd antipodean that swaps the quiet life in NZ for a years mayhem in Leeds. So here are a couple of statistics......I would be tempted to challenge other posters to do the same comparisons and see what they find.

We started our resurgence journey in the 2014/2015 season finishing 4th in the League. A game of note was our local rival fixture away to Hegians. We took around 200 spectators and won the game 6-36. Of the team that beat Heath on Saturday some four seasons later, eight players featured in both games. A further four players that were involved against Heath on Saturday were playing in our Under U14's and U17's respectively back then. I think that highlights the investment in coaching and facilities paying off? Players staying season after season, improving individually and as a team with juniors that came to watch that game pulling on senior jersey's years later. West Leeds have proven what you can achieve by keeping roughly the same boys playing together.

I sign off with the actual statistics

2013/2014 - Y2 Finished 12th
2014/2015 - Y2 Finished 4th
2015/2016 - Y2 Finished 3rd
2016/2017 - Y2 Finished 1st (Unbeaten, as did the Second XV and Third XV)
2017/2018 - Y1 Finished 7th
2018/2019 - Y1 Currently 1st

If we get promoted this year great, if we don't we won't be that concerned. As long as we are putting out three teams, winning more than we lose, seeing our juniors come through, a few playing higher level and giving blokes and now girls a break from the mundane at the weekend Town will be a happy place, whether you own a cat you swing around or not :)


Offline Burnsy

  • A little respect please...
  • ******
  • Posts: 2675
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Twitter
Re: The bigger picture
« Reply #66 on: January 14, 2019, 05:37:10 PM »
The problem with Moortown is that it doesn't suit the elitist mentality of what a Rugby Union club should be. It's a bit rough round the edges and some of the lads didn't go to boarding school.

When a club like this does well it gets ripped to shreds and that in turn creates a fortress mentality from some people at the club, a bit of "everyone hates us and we don't care" attitude.

From what I know of Moortown, it's a well run, well attended rugby club, giving loads of kids from rough areas of Leeds a chance to play Rugby. A tough place to go and get a result at and a bunch of lads who'll stick together no matter what.

Keep doing what ever it is you're doing Carl and let the raa-raa upper crust frown on you, I've been at clubs on that side of the fence and it's a good feeling when you get to beat them.
6 Nations Prediction League Winner Due To Botts Generosity 2011

The biggest downside of sudden unexpected death is being unable to delete your Internet search history.

Offline backrowbandit

  • God
  • A little respect please...
  • *****
  • Posts: 9672
  • Jealousy is the tribute mediocrity pays to genius
    • View Profile
Re: The bigger picture
« Reply #67 on: January 14, 2019, 07:25:04 PM »
I think most posters were talking in general about an ongoing debate across the UK about the direction of rugby union.

The whole Moortown discussion thingy s no different a spotlight to the one which is shone on several clubs. Obviously there are a handful who have an recurring issue with this particular club....but Carl, walking away from debate is not an answer to critics. You've stood your ground well...keep it up
Loving all rugby but especially at grassroots level.

Offline Ribbflagman

  • A little respect please...
  • ******
  • Posts: 1560
    • View Profile
Re: The bigger picture
« Reply #68 on: January 14, 2019, 09:11:24 PM »
Well said BRB I concur with your post.
CTJ Its no issue with you but some of your posters do your club rep nothing but harm. G luck anyway.

Offline omigidiant

  • Forum old hand
  • **
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: The bigger picture
« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2019, 12:18:31 AM »
I have to say I find CTJ's comments very intersting and having met the guy, although only once at a Sunday morning junior fixture, I know he is genuine in his love for the club and what he wants it to do for the community. I doubt many of those on here who criticise how he has spent his money would risk their money in a club that was just about down and out when he came along, and for that he should be commended. I hope he doesn't stop contributing to this forum because I've noted on numerous occasions when lots of drivel is being posted he has come along with sensible well thought out comments.

"Any fool can criticise, condemn and complain - and most fools do." Dale Carnegie
Never argue with an idiot, he'll bring you down to his level and beat you with experience!

Offline Broughton

  • Finding my feet
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
Re: The bigger picture
« Reply #70 on: January 16, 2019, 05:07:16 PM »
A great post from CTJ !  ....He is evidently a proper rugby guy with the interests of his club at heart.

He has evidently put "his money where his mouth is" and it is great to see the improvements which have been made by Moortown over recent years.
I recognise that many rival clubs in Leeds will be jealous of their gradual and sustained improvements. 

Moortown are to be applauded for their efforts in increasing the number of senior and junior sides.
It's great to see that more youngsters are playing rugby union...especially in a city with strong competition from junior football and rugby league.

May I congratulate him on the success at Moortown ... and commend him for having the courage to explain the" the whys and wherefores" to any doubters on here.   
I have always found Moortown a very hospitable club and they certainly made the players and supporters from Heath feel welcome on Saturday

- Good luck CTJ !