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Offline Beachy

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Walk over or rearranged fixture?
« on: December 15, 2019, 05:31:40 PM »
Just wondered what people's thoughts were on our postponed/rearranged game with Aireborough yesterday regarding the reasoning behind it. We offered on Wednesday to reverse the fixture if needed in case the Aire pitch wasn't playable, which was the case on Saturday, so we obviously offered to reverse the fixture as said on Wednesday but were then told Aire didn't have a team to travel to our place yet had a team to play at home? 🤔 So we are now replaying the game on 25th January to our annoyance. Just interested to see what others would have expected from the reasons given yesterday? Would you expect to be given the points as Aire said they couldn't raise a team to travel or accept the rearranged fixture? I understand how hard it is to raise a team especially this time of year so can understand Aires struggles but think if a team are saying they can play at home but can't away so can't fulfill the fixture then the other team waiting to play should be given the game, especially given the backlog of fixtures now piling up that the Yorkshire RFU keep telling us about.

Offline Fenton

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Re: Walk over or rearranged fixture?
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2019, 06:05:53 PM »
Beachy, it is understandable but not acceptable, I know from many years with the Worms when struggling at the bottom of the league with a weakened team and with the opportunity to cancel a game due to the weather it’s sometimes an option that is taken, sometimes , and in most cases in RU you accept the situation and take the rough with the smooth, last weekend it happened that the Worms had a few issues themselves due to injury/work and other issues and may have been an opportunity for Air to post a score, I have a feeling when replayed this advantage may not be the same, would love to hear from a representative from them.

Online gateprop

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Re: Walk over or rearranged fixture?
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2019, 06:46:54 PM »
Teams are under no obligation to swap home advantage if their pitch is unplayable. The fact that they couldn’t raise a team to travel shouldn’t factor into it. If they couldn’t raise a team for a home match and used the pitch as an excuse that would be a different story. I understand Knottingley’s frustration as they did their best to make the fixture happen but it’s unfortunately just one of those things. As for fixtures piling up we ended up finishing the season on May 18th last year due to cancellations and cup runs. Part and parcel of amateur rugby I suppose.

Offline Postie

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Re: Walk over or rearranged fixture?
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2019, 07:00:57 PM »
Teams are under no obligation to swap home advantage if their pitch is unplayable.

Are you swapping home advantage of you a reversing the fixture?

More to this than meets the eye I think. Did they say they couldn't raise a team or just say pitch was unplayable? Either way it is on my opinion it's bad sportsmanship not to reverse the fixture given the amount of time Grotts gave them beforehand.

Offline avinastella

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Re: Walk over or rearranged fixture?
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2019, 07:15:52 PM »
Regulation 13. 6.6

(ii) If a Club is concerned or has any doubt that the match may need to be cancelled for Pitch or Weather Conditions, it must try to obtain an opinion of a member of the Club’s Local Referees’ Society as to whether the match is likely to be played or cancelled. A Match should not be cancelled because of Pitch or Weather Conditions without an inspection of the pitch by a Referee or the agreement of the League Secretary (or relevant Organising Committee in the case of Cup Competitions).   (iii) A Club whose home ground is unfit to play must seek an alternative venue. In the event of Clubs failing to agree on the suitability of the alternative venue, a ruling can be made by the Organising Committee. During the first part of the season, Clubs playing in home and away Leagues will be expected in the first instance to exchange the venue to the one originally scheduled for the second half of the Season.
 
(iv) When a late decision (i.e. within 3 hours of kick-off) as to the fitness of the pitch for playing a match is necessary, the decision shall be made by the captains of the teams involved. If the captains agree for the match to proceed, the Referee is still entitled to decline to referee any match on safety grounds or other substantial reason. If one or both of the captains do not agree for the match to proceed, the match will not be played and the matter will be referred to the Organising Committee to decide upon what action shall be taken in accordance with RFU Regulation 13.6.11. Any match that is not played on the grounds that the pitch was unfit and for any other substantial reason, shall be notified by the home Club to the League Secretary (or relevant Organising Committee in the case of Cup Competitions) within 48 hours of the decision to not play the match together with the view of the Referee of the fitness of the pitch and the provisions of RFU Regulation 13.6.11 shall apply. Any team refusing to play a match due to unplayable conditions must provide supporting evidence of such unsuitability.
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he found his smack had talc in it.

Offline Postie

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Re: Walk over or rearranged fixture?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2019, 08:51:11 PM »
Regulation 13. 6.6

(ii) If a Club is concerned or has any doubt that the match may need to be cancelled for Pitch or Weather Conditions, it must try to obtain an opinion of a member of the Club’s Local Referees’ Society as to whether the match is likely to be played or cancelled. A Match should not be cancelled because of Pitch or Weather Conditions without an inspection of the pitch by a Referee or the agreement of the League Secretary (or relevant Organising Committee in the case of Cup Competitions).   (iii) A Club whose home ground is unfit to play must seek an alternative venue. In the event of Clubs failing to agree on the suitability of the alternative venue, a ruling can be made by the Organising Committee. During the first part of the season, Clubs playing in home and away Leagues will be expected in the first instance to exchange the venue to the one originally scheduled for the second half of the Season.
 
(iv) When a late decision (i.e. within 3 hours of kick-off) as to the fitness of the pitch for playing a match is necessary, the decision shall be made by the captains of the teams involved. If the captains agree for the match to proceed, the Referee is still entitled to decline to referee any match on safety grounds or other substantial reason. If one or both of the captains do not agree for the match to proceed, the match will not be played and the matter will be referred to the Organising Committee to decide upon what action shall be taken in accordance with RFU Regulation 13.6.11. Any match that is not played on the grounds that the pitch was unfit and for any other substantial reason, shall be notified by the home Club to the League Secretary (or relevant Organising Committee in the case of Cup Competitions) within 48 hours of the decision to not play the match together with the view of the Referee of the fitness of the pitch and the provisions of RFU Regulation 13.6.11 shall apply. Any team refusing to play a match due to unplayable conditions must provide supporting evidence of such unsuitability.

Well reading that I would say it should be an AWO or am I reading it wrong?

Out of curiousity Beachy and Fentone what is the  Grottingley comitee view on this?

Offline avinastella

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Re: Walk over or rearranged fixture?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2019, 09:16:22 PM »
Regulation 13. 6.6

(ii) If a Club is concerned or has any doubt that the match may need to be cancelled for Pitch or Weather Conditions, it must try to obtain an opinion of a member of the Club’s Local Referees’ Society as to whether the match is likely to be played or cancelled. A Match should not be cancelled because of Pitch or Weather Conditions without an inspection of the pitch by a Referee or the agreement of the League Secretary (or relevant Organising Committee in the case of Cup Competitions).   (iii) A Club whose home ground is unfit to play must seek an alternative venue. In the event of Clubs failing to agree on the suitability of the alternative venue, a ruling can be made by the Organising Committee. During the first part of the season, Clubs playing in home and away Leagues will be expected in the first instance to exchange the venue to the one originally scheduled for the second half of the Season.
 
(iv) When a late decision (i.e. within 3 hours of kick-off) as to the fitness of the pitch for playing a match is necessary, the decision shall be made by the captains of the teams involved. If the captains agree for the match to proceed, the Referee is still entitled to decline to referee any match on safety grounds or other substantial reason. If one or both of the captains do not agree for the match to proceed, the match will not be played and the matter will be referred to the Organising Committee to decide upon what action shall be taken in accordance with RFU Regulation 13.6.11. Any match that is not played on the grounds that the pitch was unfit and for any other substantial reason, shall be notified by the home Club to the League Secretary (or relevant Organising Committee in the case of Cup Competitions) within 48 hours of the decision to not play the match together with the view of the Referee of the fitness of the pitch and the provisions of RFU Regulation 13.6.11 shall apply. Any team refusing to play a match due to unplayable conditions must provide supporting evidence of such unsuitability.

Well reading that I would say it should be an AWO or am I reading it wrong?

Out of curiousity Beachy and Fentone what is the  Grottingley comitee view on this?
Yes, you read it wrong.
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he found his smack had talc in it.

Offline Fenton

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Re: Walk over or rearranged fixture?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2019, 10:05:44 PM »
Teams are under no obligation to swap home advantage if their pitch is unplayable.

Are you swapping home advantage of you a reversing the fixture?

More to this than meets the eye I think. Did they say they couldn't raise a team or just say pitch was unplayable? Either way it is on my opinion it's bad sportsmanship not to reverse the fixture given the amount of time Grotts gave them beforehand.
Pastie, your an idiot and therefore your opinion is redacted

Offline Fenton

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Re: Walk over or rearranged fixture?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2019, 10:07:25 PM »
Regulation 13. 6.6

(ii) If a Club is concerned or has any doubt that the match may need to be cancelled for Pitch or Weather Conditions, it must try to obtain an opinion of a member of the Club’s Local Referees’ Society as to whether the match is likely to be played or cancelled. A Match should not be cancelled because of Pitch or Weather Conditions without an inspection of the pitch by a Referee or the agreement of the League Secretary (or relevant Organising Committee in the case of Cup Competitions).   (iii) A Club whose home ground is unfit to play must seek an alternative venue. In the event of Clubs failing to agree on the suitability of the alternative venue, a ruling can be made by the Organising Committee. During the first part of the season, Clubs playing in home and away Leagues will be expected in the first instance to exchange the venue to the one originally scheduled for the second half of the Season.
 
(iv) When a late decision (i.e. within 3 hours of kick-off) as to the fitness of the pitch for playing a match is necessary, the decision shall be made by the captains of the teams involved. If the captains agree for the match to proceed, the Referee is still entitled to decline to referee any match on safety grounds or other substantial reason. If one or both of the captains do not agree for the match to proceed, the match will not be played and the matter will be referred to the Organising Committee to decide upon what action shall be taken in accordance with RFU Regulation 13.6.11. Any match that is not played on the grounds that the pitch was unfit and for any other substantial reason, shall be notified by the home Club to the League Secretary (or relevant Organising Committee in the case of Cup Competitions) within 48 hours of the decision to not play the match together with the view of the Referee of the fitness of the pitch and the provisions of RFU Regulation 13.6.11 shall apply. Any team refusing to play a match due to unplayable conditions must provide supporting evidence of such unsuitability.

Well reading that I would say it should be an AWO or am I reading it wrong?

Out of curiousity Beachy and Fentone what is the  Grottingley comitee view on this?
again Pastie, your opinion is irrelevant

Offline Beachy

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Re: Walk over or rearranged fixture?
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2019, 11:37:35 PM »
Quote from: Postie

Well reading that I would say it should be an AWO or am I reading it wrong?

Out of curiousity Beachy and Fentone what is the  Grottingley comitee view on this?

The feeling was a bit of annoyance considering we told them a few days earlier we could reverse the fixture if required and they acknowledged that. However, it is what it is and we'll play on the 25th! But reading through Stella's informative and long winded rules it sounds to me like if you want to you can certainly bend the rules to your advantage by leaving it till late in the day and say the pitch is unplayable knowing full well you have a more likely outcome of a rearranged fixture as opposed to a reversed one, which was fairly obvious Aire didn't fancy. Seems a bit of a loophole to me and one we could consider using in the future now we know it works.

Offline Fenton

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Re: Walk over or rearranged fixture?
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2019, 09:59:56 PM »
Quote from: Postie

Well reading that I would say it should be an AWO or am I reading it wrong?

Out of curiousity Beachy and Fentone what is the  Grottingley comitee view on this?

The feeling was a bit of annoyance considering we told them a few days earlier we could reverse the fixture if required and they acknowledged that. However, it is what it is and we'll play on the 25th! But reading through Stella's informative and long winded rules it sounds to me like if you want to you can certainly bend the rules to your advantage by leaving it till late in the day and say the pitch is unplayable knowing full well you have a more likely outcome of a rearranged fixture as opposed to a reversed one, which was fairly obvious Aire didn't fancy. Seems a bit of a loophole to me and one we could consider using in the future now we know it works.
I doubt Aire have the Balls to respond , but it would only be fair to hear their side, we have some oven ready questions. To ask.

Offline avinastella

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Re: Walk over or rearranged fixture?
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2019, 07:00:05 AM »
Quote from: Postie

Well reading that I would say it should be an AWO or am I reading it wrong?

Out of curiousity Beachy and Fentone what is the  Grottingley comitee view on this?

The feeling was a bit of annoyance considering we told them a few days earlier we could reverse the fixture if required and they acknowledged that. However, it is what it is and we'll play on the 25th! But reading through Stella's informative and long winded rules it sounds to me like if you want to you can certainly bend the rules to your advantage by leaving it till late in the day and say the pitch is unplayable knowing full well you have a more likely outcome of a rearranged fixture as opposed to a reversed one, which was fairly obvious Aire didn't fancy. Seems a bit of a loophole to me and one we could consider using in the future now we know it works.
If a game doesn't take place then it will be rearranged. That doesn't mean there aren't any implications for the 'offending' team. It depends on the League secretary and the committee regarding the information they were provided.
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he found his smack had talc in it.

Offline Young Turk

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Re: Walk over or rearranged fixture?
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2019, 11:03:27 AM »
Just to put this to bed. Notts were prepared to reverse the fixture (why wouldn’t they be?) Aire couldn’t due to work and family commitments for a number of players. But as correctly stated were under no obligation to do so anyway. We had a squad of 19 ready to play at home, the pitch was unplayable...it still is hence our fixture against Ossett this week is being played at Otley RUFC.

Offline Fenton

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Re: Walk over or rearranged fixture?
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2019, 08:31:56 PM »
Young Turk, we start with a K not an N, sometime s a G but that’s when Postie is trying to get his top Idiot spot back, however it’s easy to say 6 days later, should of probably said this earlier as it does not help your reputation , never mind at least you’ve got the cohooners to eventually reply, enjoy your game tomorrow at least no one is loosing any Christmas money taking time off