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Offline old style prop

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Lower XV joining National League
« on: July 30, 2021, 02:51:24 PM »
From latest Yorkshire RFU email looks like the powers that be are trying to force this through again (think this is the third time in the last few years they have tried to push this through). Every single time the "big" clubs want it and the lower level clubs don't.

Not sure why they cant understand that a Yorkshire 4 club would not want a National level club sticking their second team into their league so they can have a season of 100-0 wins and stand a better chance of poaching the players from the lower level sides.

I really hope they don't push it through, but if they do one simple answer to stop it, if all the sides in the league can agree is simple just refuse to play them. That way every club will get the same -10 point sanction and the big clubs second team can get a promotion with no games played.

Long time no post but im still alive :)

Offline Rugby01

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Re: Lower XV joining National League
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2021, 09:43:13 AM »
I am afraid you are already too late.

The inclusionof lower teams was one of 5 items confirmed at the RFU AGM in April and WILL start in 2022-23.

See part of the circular sent out to Clubs in April from the RFU below.  Full document is attached.




Adult Male Future Competitions Structure from season 2022/23
RFU Council voted on 27 November 2020 and 16 April 2021 to pass the following resolutions for a new competition structure in the adult male game from Level 3 and below.
The recommendations were proposed by the Future Competitions Structure Working Group following an 18-month review into the current competition structure, which has included extensive consultation sessions with Council Members, Constituent Bodies, Club administrators, competition organisers, match officials, coaches and players, in addition to webinars, a national survey and detailed analysis of available data.

5. Lower XV teams
From season 2022/23, Lower XV teams will be able to play in the English Clubs Championship up to and including Level 7, (no longer capped at Level 8), subject to specific criteria to be set out in the RFU Regulations.
The addition of Lower XVs teams aims to offer appropriate competition opportunities for appropriate Lower XV teams, and to increase the number of teams in leagues at certain levels, which should decrease travel time for clubs and players.
For example, by grouping on a regional basis, a 2nd or 3rd XV team in Level 7 could be of similar standard to a 1st or 2nd Xv team in League 8 and they will now be able to compete against each other if they wish. This is voluntary. Clubs can sign up and will only be admitted if they fulfil the criteria, the detail of which will be confirmed in the implementation phase, but which is likely to offer some sensitivity to local needs.

Offline old style prop

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Re: Lower XV joining National League
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2021, 01:21:24 PM »
Rugby 01 - i am aware they have managed to force it through - they have tried and been unanimously rejected every time they have brought it up with the lower league teams.

If they do force it in and all the other clubs in the league it is enforced in don't want it, the simple answer is they all agree not to play them and just give them WO's. The rest of the clubs can just then compete to finish 2nd and the 2nd teams of the senior clubs can have a season with no games, cant see many of them wanting to do the same again the following season.

I am sure the RFU will try to bring big sticks or carrots out to enforce it but if all the clubs stick together and give them the middle finger there wont be much they can do about it.

Offline WestoftheHill

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Re: Lower XV joining National League
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2021, 07:47:10 AM »
Bit surprised this is still doing the rounds R01 states its happening despite 80% of the Clubs in the North actively being against it.

https://lancashirerugby.co.uk/images/RFUDocument2-12.2FCSLevel7belowCBbasedmodels30.03.21.pdf Link to the a possible structure based on League placings from 2019/20 that the RFU Future Competition Group provided.

Offline old style prop

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Re: Lower XV joining National League
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2021, 10:39:00 AM »
West of the hill - wish i could say im surprised but the powers that be have wanted to get this in for years. Looks like two outcomes to me.

1. The clubs play the games and we end up with a batch of 100-0 type score lines, some serious injuries and potentially the nail in the coffin for some already struggling clubs.

2. The lower level clubs stick together refuse to play these sides giving those sides a walk over every week.

I just hope we don't see any serious injuries or clubs dropping out of the leagues because of this.

Offline Ian1307

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Re: Lower XV joining National League
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2021, 04:44:02 PM »
We at York think its a terrific idea and have applied to enter our 2nd team into the RFU Leagues. Works well in the South West so I am told and we need to have a more varied fixture list than the same teams 4 times a season. You have to move forward to progress and our players will do so with a more competitive league with jeopardy of relegation and ambition with promotion.

Offline Ian1307

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Re: Lower XV joining National League
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2021, 04:48:02 PM »
BUCs leagues are full of 1s, 2s 3s etc and it is very successful in providing meaningful and varied competition. At York players that don't want that continue to play for their College sides so big tick for participation. C'mon guys open your minds to the possibilities. Note also , we asked to be entered at Tier 9

Offline old style prop

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Re: Lower XV joining National League
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2021, 06:22:09 PM »
Ian i don't think id class York as one of the lower league teams that is going to get hit by this.

To the higher teams sticking their second teams into Yorkshire 4 and 5 and getting 100-0 wins it might seem like a jolly good laugh. However to the teams that are struggling to get 15 players out for a single team by pulling players out of retirement the idea of getting hammered by a side they should never be playing will be the last straw for many of them.

Hope you enjoy watching the inevitability of some of those clubs folding and pulling out of the leagues after they get smashed by your second team, but my money is they will simple just say "sorry we cant get a team this weak you can have the 5 points"


Offline Fredsbar

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Re: Lower XV joining National League
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2021, 09:13:15 PM »
Two requests regarding Yorkshire Clubs view on Lower XV’s entering the National League Structure have been sent from County Office.

35 responses have been received but 59 are still outstanding. Would members on this forum ask Club Officers if they could return their feedback by August 20th please.

Offline old style prop

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Re: Lower XV joining National League
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2021, 10:24:55 PM »
Id be staggered if the feedback was not the same as it has been every time the question has been asked - namely all the clubs in Y4 and Y5 that will get hammered by these second teams don't want it, whilst the senior clubs whose second teams will be doing the hammering are all in favour.
 

Offline Locked Out

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Re: Lower XV joining National League
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2021, 12:03:15 PM »
Looks like the end of social Rugby at Ripon, where we have tried to accommodate all abilities in the 2nd team. It's not much fun any more for scratch sides made up of teenagers and Vets getting spannered every week. Too late now, but hopefully common sense will prevail at some point.
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Offline Ian1307

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Re: Lower XV joining National League
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2021, 09:57:34 PM »
Well at York we have requested our 2s be entered at Yorkshire 3 level, but we would be happy at Yorkshire 2. However I agree that if they were entered into York’s 4 it wouldn’t be a fair contest at all. However I can assure we will not be poaching anyone in those leagues.

Offline Ashrugby

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Re: Lower XV joining National League
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2021, 02:39:13 PM »
i don't understand how this will work for York. What happens if the 1st team players get injured or are unavailable. They won't have any 2nd team players able to move up as they will all be registered for York 2s as they will effectively be another club.

I know you can transfer players from one team to another but you can't be doing that every week.

Offline Rob13

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Re: Lower XV joining National League
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2021, 09:22:51 PM »
Would work well I’d think, two universities in the area will surely help cover the ranks?

Interesting times ahead.

Offline the blind ref

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Re: Lower XV joining National League
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2021, 05:43:08 PM »
been doing this in cricket for years now, it does settle down after a cpl of seasons and the leagues are better for it players move about more so the lower clubs get better players