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What future does our game have?

This is a discussion for the topic What future does our game have? on the board Other Senior Rugby.

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backrowbandit

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on: August 07, 2022, 03:41:54 PM
Four former All Black captains in the Sunday times today (on head injuries)
"Kids are starting the game but leave in alarming numbers in their late teens. They see a game that has become too brutal, too violent, too likely to result in brain injury.  A game where there is too little space for creativity and too many people looking for high velocity collisions"

I've consistently said this for a number of years....The game is killing the game. We need to go back to a game of evasion as the first instinct, not contact.

I worry for senior men's playing number if the game does change.
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Rob13

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Reply #1 on: August 07, 2022, 09:28:56 PM
There seems a genuine disbelief when Ive spoke with people when I say I think there's too much emphasis on the gym, players becoming machines....

It's why I prefer being involved with the social element of rugby ie the 2's and 3's. They go out hungover to high hell and can play some entertaining stuff at times. I gave up taking the game seriously long ago.


Dan Nulty

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Reply #2 on: August 08, 2022, 06:47:44 AM
I think it could end up like American football. School,   universities, professional clubs only.

You can certainly see why, as the players became professional, American football turned to pads and rugby league dropped 2 players and stopped pushing in scrums.

Amateur rugby is in big trouble


hobbo

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Reply #3 on: August 11, 2022, 03:19:24 PM
I think it could end up like American football. School,   universities, professional clubs only.

You can certainly see why, as the players became professional, American football turned to pads and rugby league dropped 2 players and stopped pushing in scrums.

Amateur rugby is in big trouble

As much as I hate it I 100% agree - it really is dying out.  I don't think it's 100% to do with the size of people and the collisions - I think a lot of it has to do with the 'Saturdays are for sport' culture is slowly dying off.  But the newly emphasised health risks are also a mitigating factor and can't be ignored.  The risk of playing seems to be far outweighing the reward these days. But BRB if that is the position we are in, how on earth does it revert back?  It starts with the pro-game doesn't it - that will never revert, only evolve.


andyn

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Reply #4 on: August 12, 2022, 03:50:01 PM
I do not disagree with any of the above......I feel a huge watering down of our game coming in the near future.


Dan Nulty

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Reply #5 on: August 12, 2022, 06:01:50 PM
I do not disagree with any of the above......I feel a huge watering down of our game coming in the near future.

Agree Andy, I think the scrum will be the first to be changed so that teams without proper front row can still have competitive games. There were times last year when we had 25 lads available but no front row. Lads didn't want to play a fixture we had already lost so the game was forfeit and minus points. That meant at least 43 lads not playing that weekend. Not good for the purists, but the reality is priorities and commitment is changing.


carlthewlisjohns

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Reply #6 on: August 12, 2022, 11:29:16 PM
Question, hasn't rugby league been professional for decades? Were it not the first twenty years of the Super League when players began to get seriously huge? The collisions in RL have always been much tougher whether we admit it or not. Are the stats showing by inference that injuries of this nature are more prevalent in RL over RU, particularly per Capita in the NRL which is physically insane? I would like to see that data. Also, if you choose to be a pro player, just like you choose to go into the forces or say boxing, you know the risks. Is there any data whatsoever that suggests injuries of the brain or otherwise are more common now per 1000 players than it was in the 80's in the amateur game Who's tracking that?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 11:35:06 PM by carlthewlisjohns »


carlthewlisjohns

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Reply #7 on: August 12, 2022, 11:33:58 PM
Four former All Black captains in the Sunday times today (on head injuries)
"Kids are starting the game but leave in alarming numbers in their late teens. They see a game that has become too brutal, too violent, too likely to result in brain injury.  A game where there is too little space for creativity and too many people looking for high velocity collisions"

I've consistently said this for a number of years....The game is killing the game. We need to go back to a game of evasion as the first instinct, not contact.

I worry for senior men's playing number if the game does change.

"They see a game that has become too brutal, too violent, too likely to result in brain injury.", What have they gone and interviewed all these teens for their opinions for leaving the game? Found time away from their X-Boxes and helium balloons? Data, data, data......where is it? Only then can we make informed choices.


Red Horseman

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Reply #8 on: August 13, 2022, 08:10:10 AM
Well carltj, the fact remains that the senior amateur game in 2022 is rapidly haemorrhaging players, regardless of the numbers of mini/youth. (Historically the numbers of them then transitioning to senior teams has also had a high attrition rate anyway.)

What do YOU think the reason is, and how would YOU reverse it?
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carlthewlisjohns

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Reply #9 on: August 13, 2022, 10:00:32 AM
Firstly to close off my late night rambling with an example, which imo suggests it's a myth surrounding the physical make up of players at amatuer level including level 6. Our last game of the 2022 season we travelled to M&N. Sun was shining, on paper we had a fast class side out. Malton looked awful in the warm up. Their former prop come physio (who expertly saved our centres career earlier in the season, top man) was playing that day and their team looked like a mish-mash of young lads and big old boys that certainly looked nothing like the machines on the TV. Seventeen minutes in they were 22-0 up!!!! They slung it about, played some outstanding rugby and showed that looks can be deceiving. I don't think we have played ANY side last season where you would say are all in tip top physical condition, as it should be!

I do agree player numbers are down across the board. I really thought that after lockdown the other halves of our player base would be kicking the lads out of the door with said players skipping down the drive with boots over shoulder and beer tokens in hand, alas this has not been the case. The reasons for this are many and could be discussed for a long time. I think, to stop the rot we need to be radical and here is what I would do.......

Clubs bring in good incomes, Bar takings, Gate receipts, sponsorship and memberships, plus whatever they can make elsewhere with grants and so on. But, now where will most of this money be going? Gas bills to heat the club houses and power the showers and Electric bills for lights, floodlights and hot drinks/cooking. This means less money available for pitches, facilities, kit and a few "free beers" for the Lads. Also, how much revenue is lost from fixtures that are called off due to snow, frost, flood or bad weather? How much cleaning do we do of clubhouses and changing rooms from mud, mud and more mud? How are parents, particularly ones from poor backgrounds going to wash kits three times a week and dry them with energy costs so high? As Clubs we have less money than ever as such the product we can offer decreases in quality (I know there are some very wealthy clubs that this may not affect). Then there is the playing over and around Christmas and Easter a time of struggle for player availability. I would....

Start preseason in January, just after Christmas - Training only in Jan and Feb means no games on pitches in bad weather.

First games start in March - Spring, weather is better, lighter nights so less floodlight use opening up more useable training space, not as cold so less heating needed. This would save Clubs £000's

Games run in March, April, May, June and end mid July. - Just in time for summer holidays for families or kids that want to go to festivals. This gives 22 weeks for a fast pace league campaign, the options of Friday nights or midweek fixtures, Rugby in the Sun with BBQs and perhaps better beer sales. Ability to put entertainment on outside for families such as bands, bouncy castles.

July to Sept - Cup competitions / a REAL County comp with Yorkshire A being made of up of Otley, Harrogate, Huddersfield teams like that and Yorkshire B with teams like Heath, ilkley, Driff and Moortown (hehe)......This gives families a spectacle to watch that are a higher level, fun and doesn't impact league games. Also 7s and 10s comps.......

September to Jan - Cold weather, dark nights, Christmas breaks and so on.....no Rugby and a chance to rest. Bearing in mind that those not interested in a Cup or County Comp or 7s then have all summer to rest.....


Red Horseman

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Reply #10 on: August 13, 2022, 10:43:43 AM
Think all of that has been discussed for years. Whilst some good ideas, not as simple as it looks.

Making Union into a summer sport will drain off all League players who turn to Union in the winter though, not to mention those who like cricket.

No easy answer, no quick fix I’m afraid.
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backrowbandit

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Reply #11 on: August 13, 2022, 11:04:07 AM
I wonder how many clubs would afford to irrigate their patches to make them playable and not concrete. We invested in a bore hole 8 or 9 years ago and it cost £11k then, someone got a quote for £18k for a similar setup. Running irrigation off the mains costs about £6k per pitch for two months.
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carlthewlisjohns

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Reply #12 on: August 13, 2022, 01:34:28 PM
Grass is left longer which helps that, Rugby League cope with the pitcher, plus for March, Arpil, May and most of June that wouldn't be an issue.



Ribbflagman

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Reply #13 on: September 01, 2022, 10:02:04 PM
It is my honest opinion that our game will cease to exist in maybe 30 years. with the politically correct brigade, healthy and safety enthusiasts, people suing governing bodies for head injuries that will bankrupt them.  I believe we will all rue the day that the game went "open" in 1988.
 Hope I am totally wrong.