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Future Competition Structure

This is a discussion for the topic Future Competition Structure on the board Other Senior Rugby.

Author Topic: Future Competition Structure  (Read 1277 times)

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gateprop

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on: August 25, 2024, 10:46:51 AM
From the latest RFU briefing it looks like they are going to try and force through allowing 2nd XV's into the leagues again. Info being sent out mid-September so tell your club secretaries to keep an eye out.

Can see the full document here https://www.rfunorth.com/news/ and it talks about the Papa John's, promotion/relegation, registration etc but the bit about the lower XV's is this:
Changes for the 2025-26 Season
1. Future of Lower XVs in RFU Leagues
• Reconfirmation Required: Nine CBs that opted out of including LXV teams must
reconfirm their position by mid-October 2024. Information will be sent to clubs and
CBs in September.
2. Raising the ‘Ceiling’ for LXVs
• New Ceiling: The ceiling for LXVs will be raised from Counties 1 to Regional 2 to
address competitive imbalance and allow fair progression, effective from the 2025-
26 season.


Ribbflagman

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Reply #1 on: August 25, 2024, 11:31:01 PM
I wonder if they will impose a punitive 75% that need to be in favour as last time. Nothing has changed imo other than lots of lower clubs unable to put two teams out and in several casesonly one. That confirms my view as stated last time that this will be the death knell for many long standing community clubs. I think this is exactly what the powers that be want and I urge all grassroots clubs to rally round and vote against it. For those that dont through apathy then dont complain when you lose players to the likes of Morley, Wharfedale, Sandal, Huddersfield, etc etc and are no longer able to field any sides as has happened in Cumbria with Ambleside, Moresby, Netherall OB, and the once mighty (within the county) Furness. Be very careful not voting against what the RFU wish for.


gateprop

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Reply #2 on: September 26, 2024, 02:46:46 PM
We’ve had the email through today about 2nd XV entries into lower leagues for 2025/26 season. Please ask your club secretary to keep an eye out. I get the feeling they are going to keep trying to push this through until they get the result they want but we can hold them off for as long as possible.


avinastella

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Reply #3 on: September 26, 2024, 03:48:25 PM
We’ve had the email through today about 2nd XV entries into lower leagues for 2025/26 season. Please ask your club secretary to keep an eye out. I get the feeling they are going to keep trying to push this through until they get the result they want but we can hold them off for as long as possible.
Reading the most recent email and the attachments, i think someone is most definitely trying to pull a fast one.
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he found his smack had talc in it.


old style prop

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Reply #4 on: September 26, 2024, 04:16:33 PM
My reading of the email is that unless surficent clubs request a vote, then unless YRFU decide to hold a vote despite insurficent clubs requesting one, we stay as we are with no lower teams entering the leagues. Only if there is a vote and that vote got more than a 1/3rd of the clubs voting in favour would we switch to have lower teams entering the leagues.

Just checking with you chaps that my understanding is correct ?



avinastella

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Reply #5 on: September 26, 2024, 04:55:07 PM
My reading of the email is that unless surficent clubs request a vote, then unless YRFU decide to hold a vote despite insurficent clubs requesting one, we stay as we are with no lower teams entering the leagues. Only if there is a vote and that vote got more than a 1/3rd of the clubs voting in favour would we switch to have lower teams entering the leagues.

Just checking with you chaps that my understanding is correct ?
2/3rds
But the directive suggests no vote unless enough clubs actually ask for one.
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he found his smack had talc in it.


gateprop

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Reply #6 on: September 26, 2024, 05:48:01 PM
My reading of the email is that unless surficent clubs request a vote, then unless YRFU decide to hold a vote despite insurficent clubs requesting one, we stay as we are with no lower teams entering the leagues. Only if there is a vote and that vote got more than a 1/3rd of the clubs voting in favour would we switch to have lower teams entering the leagues.

Just checking with you chaps that my understanding is correct ?

10% of clubs I believe. I don't know how many clubs fall under the Yorkshire RFU umbrella though so couldn't tell you how many would actually have to request a vote. I don't know how realistic a prospect it is this time around, I just want people to be aware of it so each club can raise objections if necessary.


Ribbflagman

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Reply #7 on: September 26, 2024, 10:00:42 PM
All grass roots clubs MUST vote against this. It will be the total death knell for any club in close proximity to a so called "Senior club" with only one team. Imagine if the likes of Knaresborough or Thirsk lost a few players to say Harrogate or Ripon, would they still be able to put any teams out. The same applies to teams like Knottingley Hemsworth and Castleford close to Pontefract. I could go on but the same applies to grass roots clubs in close proximity to Otley, Ionians, Hull Wharfedale, Sheffield and Ilkley. I urge all grass roots clubs to rally round and vote against it again as you did last time.
The four bullet points that the RFU are saying is the basis for this are the following.
1. Improved player Welfare
2. Reduce travel time/Distance
3. Improve the player experience/ Quality of competition
4. Support club sustainability

My views on the above are;

1. Player welfare will not be improved as there may be many mis-matches that actually reduce player welfare until several seasons have passed and things level out. The current competitions are now at some levels dangerously mis-matched just look at some of the 100+ points hammerings being handed out especially in the lower leagues, this will only increase with this proposal.
2. Absolute rubbish to say that travel distance will be reduced in Yorkshire. We are the largest county in the country. Imagine Scarborough 2s having to go to Ribb on the same day that their 1stXV were playing away at Brods. That would involve two coaches at a cost of approx £2000 (No longer any support from RFU for travel) a prohibitable amount for many clubs with two teams playing away at very different locations on the same day. This also strengthens my comments above about player welfare (1.) as I believe it is against duty of care for our players to be asked to drive 100 miles to play a game of rugby where you mat be overwhelmed by stronger opponents and then drive 100 miles home.

3. How is the player experience improved asking club second team players to travel between 4 - 6 hours round trip to play a league game. In no sane persons eyes can this improve the quality of the competition. This will only drive players away from the game not make it more attractive which is what we should be doing.

4. As to increasing club sustainability this is yet another Ill thought out comment from whoever invented it. In our county with many 150 mile round trips. How does this proposal increase club sustainability. In Yorkshire it will drastically increase the cost of sending teams to the far flung edges of our great county, and that in itself will in some cases drastically reduce some clubs sustainability. Not least those that have ceased to exist due to this "One cap fits all" imposition from the powers that be.

If we were Bedfordshire, Buckinghamshire, Durham, Hertfordshire, Rutland, Berkshire, to name just a few that come to mind where a maximum away trip of over Forty miles would be the only "Long" trip of the season then it is a different situation. But, until the RFU can reallocate support  for long away trips for grass roots clubs such as us.
Look what has happened in Lancashire/Cheshire where over 30 clubs have formed their own three league alliance due to too much travel costs, still under the RFU umbrella but unable to be promoted/relegated out of it.
Clubs the choice is yours but if it comes to a vote PLEASE vote against it or the RFU will get their way and many clubs will "Wither on the vine" at the benefit of the larger clubs which is everything the RFU say they don't wish for but secretly I think they do.


avinastella

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Reply #8 on: September 26, 2024, 10:29:50 PM
Lancs/Cheshire clubs are back in the RFU leagues. Rejoined last season.
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he found his smack had talc in it.


Ribbflagman

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Reply #9 on: September 26, 2024, 11:15:06 PM
Thats fine Stella, my error, but they did do their own thing due to not wanting long expensive away fixtures. Think that given the increase in Bus costs it wont take long for their position to revert . Lets see. Ands as for lower xvs entering the league. IMHO we should be careful what we wish for. If you look at Cumbria 1 which includes the once very successful Aspatria 2s. Think they have given two WOs already.


Ribbflagman

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Reply #10 on: September 26, 2024, 11:27:53 PM
That would have been unthinkable 20 years ago. Aspatria were once renowned for their mighty pack who once in  my lifetime, early eighties i think, only lost something like 38 - 15 to Leicester in the old John Player Cup despite several leagues between them. That they are unable to put out two teams is a sad indictment of the state of our proud game at the moment.
They had four regular teams and were the envy of Cumbria. Sadly  Like past Cumbrian county champs Furness who are no longer in the league system and when I played used to send their twos and did on Ocaision beat us at Ribb.
Any comments please.


avinastella

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Reply #11 on: September 27, 2024, 12:02:39 AM
Thats fine Stella, my error, but they did do their own thing due to not wanting long expensive away fixtures. Think that given the increase in Bus costs it wont take long for their position to revert . Lets see. Ands as for lower xvs entering the league. IMHO we should be careful what we wish for. If you look at Cumbria 1 which includes the once very successful Aspatria 2s. Think they have given two WOs already.
Had the discussion with RFU tonight regarding lower 15's, amongst other topics.
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he found his smack had talc in it.


Differ Lid

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Reply #12 on: September 27, 2024, 08:33:19 AM
I know Driffield are a minority, and certainly not many on here who are out spoken about supporting 2nd XVs joining the leagues. But it would clearly be a benefit for Driffield. I understand the issue for clubs surrounded by national league sides who would then be in a position to stockpile players, and certainly don’t support that.

But our Second xv already travelling to Wharfedale, Ilkley, Sheffield, Sheffield Tigers, Alnwick and Percy Park this season for competitive games.

Isolated case I know, but doesn’t change the fact that Driffield would be in favour of it.





avinastella

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Reply #13 on: September 27, 2024, 10:13:42 AM
I know Driffield are a minority, and certainly not many on here who are out spoken about supporting 2nd XVs joining the leagues. But it would clearly be a benefit for Driffield. I understand the issue for clubs surrounded by national league sides who would then be in a position to stockpile players, and certainly don’t support that.

But our Second xv already travelling to Wharfedale, Ilkley, Sheffield, Sheffield Tigers, Alnwick and Percy Park this season for competitive games.

Isolated case I know, but doesn’t change the fact that Driffield would be in favour of it.
Leeds Tykes are a good example of the damage higher placed clubs can do to the game and hoovering up players. Some of the lads they signed up pre season have yet to play a game, certainly first team.
Otley were guilty of the same. Signed them up then offered to loan them out to other clubs provided they covered the lads 'wages'.
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he found his smack had talc in it.


Differ Lid

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Reply #14 on: September 27, 2024, 10:39:48 AM
I know Driffield are a minority, and certainly not many on here who are out spoken about supporting 2nd XVs joining the leagues. But it would clearly be a benefit for Driffield. I understand the issue for clubs surrounded by national league sides who would then be in a position to stockpile players, and certainly don’t support that.

But our Second xv already travelling to Wharfedale, Ilkley, Sheffield, Sheffield Tigers, Alnwick and Percy Park this season for competitive games.

Isolated case I know, but doesn’t change the fact that Driffield would be in favour of it.
Leeds Tykes are a good example of the damage higher placed clubs can do to the game and hoovering up players. Some of the lads they signed up pre season have yet to play a game, certainly first team.
Otley were guilty of the same. Signed them up then offered to loan them out to other clubs provided they covered the lads 'wages'.

We have lost players this season to Leeds Tykes, Otley, Hull Ionians and Hull. Even Wimbledon came calling for one player. So not immune to that on the Wolds.