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Reminder of merit regulations

This is a discussion for the topic Reminder of merit regulations on the board Merit Leagues.

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old style prop

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on: September 29, 2024, 09:43:44 AM
Hello just a reminder for all clubs playing in the Merit compertitions of the regulations with respect to evening up playing numbers were one team in short, in essence you have to even up numbers if oppisition are short. If you dont do that then you run the risk of having the result being recorded as a 25-0 against you (chances are you will get a warning first time of none compliance and then sanctioned after that).

Particular regulation below which to my knowledge has not changed for donkeys years so most clubs should be aware and to be fair 90% plus of all clubs would do so anyway as part of the spirit of the game for none 1st team games.

Regulations on the YRFU website if anyone wants to view them.

In the spirit of the L&Ms, where one team has less then 15 players, their opponents must assist in providing players so that the game can take place with an equal number of players and replacements in each team. Where there are odd numbers, the team providing players to its opponents will be allowed to have one extra man in its squad if it wishes to do so. The expectation is that sportsmanship will prevail, and failure to assist as set out may, on the first occasion, result in the imposition of such sanction, up to recording the match result as a 25-0 win for the opposing team with the award of 1 bonus point, as the Co-ordinator sees fit. If there are further breaches, such further penalties may be imposed at the discretion of the Co-ordinator.


Rob13

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Reply #1 on: October 21, 2024, 09:48:36 PM
We Ilkley 3's have always helped sides out in the past as it just doesn't seem right watching the opposition suffer and potentially putting people at risk if we refuse to help out. I recall a game against Wetherby a couple of years ago when they had to go down to 13 and rather than allow it we sent over willing players to make a game of it. The skipper was ever gracious.

This season however has been a farce in my opinion in situations we as a side have found ourselves in with the rules.

Our first game was against North Ribb away, we took 22 players with a full front row and a replacement prop in the second row. You couldn't have written was to unfold. We lost our replacement front row to a fractured ankle and by half time we had lost a prop and our hooker to injury. Rather than let the game carry out 15 v 15 one of the opposition players pointed out to the ref that we had to drop a player as per regulations. The ref looked confused and advised he was happy for one of our colts to play front row uncontested to give him some experience however he was reminded that if it were uncontested we had to play with 14. So we played out the next 20 with 14 men and lost what remained of our bench except one player. I actually walked over to the opposition coach to ask him to let us see out the game with 15 as we were dead on our feet and relying on colts. Thankfully he agreed.

We then played Stanley Rod's a couple of weeks ago and again burned through our bench and were left with two backs on the bench. We had a couple of injuries in the forwards and were warned unless one of the backs agreed to play hooker we would forfeit the game. Our centre rather than see us lose the game played hooker and is now ruled out indefinitely with a neck injury.

Who in holy christ is writing these rules because it isn't helping the games cause.

« Last Edit: October 21, 2024, 09:50:07 PM by Rob13 »


old style prop

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Reply #2 on: October 22, 2024, 01:28:11 AM
Rob the merit table rules are very senisble and designed to encourage as many players as possible get a game. The instances you reference against North Rib and stanley Rods you were told complete nonsense by the opposition.

I would advise printing a copy of the merit table regs from the yorkshire rfu website re the instances you mentioned.

Uncontested scrums results stands as if contested scrums occured through the match BUT if the merit table coordinator sees a consistent pattern or feels that it was done to take advantage then they may at their discretion deduct points. You do not have to drop to 14 men.

In the North Ribb instance they were incorrect that law does not apply in Merit table games and in fact it specifies that "A team which is unable to field or maintain a full front row does not have to play a man down".

In the Rods game they were incorrect the result stands irresepctive of wherether you go to uncontesed the regulations specify that "In the event of uncontested scrums for all or part of the game the result will stand as though contested scrums had taken place throughout."

Hope that helps your team in the future if either of those sides try it on again and you can correct them.


Locked Out

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Reply #3 on: October 22, 2024, 07:41:58 PM
The voice of reason. Sometimes it feels like some clubs just take things too seriously and at the end of the day, our objective has to be as many people playing rugby in some way at every opportunity.
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Rob13

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Reply #4 on: October 22, 2024, 08:55:53 PM
Take what too seriously? I had someone injured because rather than lose he stepped up to play hooker because the referee threatened us with forfeiting the game. I don't see me needing to print out the rules and regulations as the issue.

Believe it or not some people do take rugby seriously whatever level they play at.

When I see this post about sportsmanship etc I find it hard to swallow.

I take massive pride in the amount of players we have got back into rugby at Ilkley but I do not believe how the rules are laid out aids us at all.

How's your big ginger second row doing Locked out? I heard he was a bit emotional Saturday?


gateprop

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Reply #5 on: October 22, 2024, 09:47:47 PM
I do think it would be useful for all coaches and captains to be well versed in the regulations, particularly regarding game on principles and front row/uncontested rules. Some people might not be aware that they differ in the merit table compared to the leagues. There's been a game this season where the opposition have requested uncontested at times, a game where we have and also a game where we had enough front row to lend them a couple to keep scrums contested. We've also turned up to Ribb with 14 and they've kindly lent players, also a different game where we had 16 and they had 13 so we played 14 a side. To be honest if North Ribb had been difficult about it, we'd probably have taken them off our fixture schedule for next season. They're a team that struggle to get teams to travel to them so you'd think they'd be doing everything they can to uphold 'game on' principles. Hopefully just a one off experience for Rob13 as we've always found them accommodating. Gone are the pre-covid days where I remember taking 28 players away to Ribb!!

It's a battle at the moment to put a 2nd team out for a lot of clubs. Availability varies wildly. For example this last weekend we didn't even have a 2's game scheduled but had 24 players available so had to go find a fixture, week before that could only get 14 for a scheduled league fixture, week before that 25 available. We used 93 different players across our 2 teams last season, if we could find a way of getting them playing every week we'd be putting out 4 teams. Unfortunately rugby is just not a priority for most players any more, particularly since Covid. Saturdays are no longer 'for the boys'. Any rugby below 1st team should be striving to make it an enjoyable experience for all involved, otherwise the slow decline will see more clubs suffer. If your 2nd team goes, how long can your first team last on an ever shrinking player pool?


Rob13

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Reply #6 on: October 22, 2024, 10:07:52 PM
I want to be crystal clear here that I have probably my best relationship with Ribb in terms of clubs and it was one player who was adamant that we dropped to 14 the ref just didn't seem to know what to do, I don't have the time to be educating ref's and to be fair if Id tried Id have probably been sent off.

My point is we can't go on about sportsmanship and player numbers when people are getting pissed off with it all.

We as a 3's went through 87 players last season but we make it work.


Locked Out

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Reply #7 on: October 23, 2024, 04:30:07 PM
Rob, I wasn't implying that playing people out of position, particularly inexperienced or incapable front row players, was right. By mentioning taking things too seriously, it was more about trying to adhere to non-existent or misinterpreted rules based on pig-headedness, or not levelling up teams when able to do so. That used to happen frequently in my recollection and is simply unsporting. No offence intended.

Big lad appeared quite mellow when I got back to clubhouse from Ossett, so he'd clearly had some calming influence post-match. Perhaps he's missing being a 1st team regular just now?
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Stevo

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Reply #8 on: October 23, 2024, 05:09:58 PM
So a centre volunteered to play front row, did he have any previous experience there? Did the ref ask the question before allowing him to take his place in the front row??


Rob13

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Reply #9 on: November 01, 2024, 10:21:10 PM
He had never played there and the ref seemed happy to let him have a crack at it.

Gateprop Ive enough on getting a side out, ensuring we've a ref etc etc than to have a rule manual be holding the ref to account. I'd hope they are trained.


Ribbflagman

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Reply #10 on: November 02, 2024, 12:03:29 AM
Rob,
        well said, hope to see you later in the season at our place. Keep up the good work. People like you are essential to keeping your teams going.
Cheers Flaggy.