Author Topic: 2nd Teams in Leagues (Read 8365 times)

avinastella · **on:** June 30, 2016, 06:32:00 PM

Letter just been sent round regarding consideration to admit 2nd teams into the League structure.

Discuss.

old style prop · **Reply #1 on:** June 30, 2016, 06:42:50 PM

Not in favour will lead to too many mismatches especially towards end of season when a high level mid table side decides they want to win the league the 2s are in and play a bag full of regular 1st teamers.

avinastella · **Reply #2 on:** June 30, 2016, 06:51:56 PM

Quote from: old style prop on June 30, 2016, 06:42:50 PM

Not in favour will lead to too many mismatches especially towards end of season when a high level mid table side decides they want to win the league the 2s are in and play a bag full of regular 1st teamers.

possible, but I'd say doubtful. 2nd teams can only climb so far.
The letter also asks for views on what level any 2nd teams should be allowed to enter, that should limit the number of mismatches.

Sycamore · **Reply #3 on:** June 30, 2016, 08:00:43 PM

Well if they won't force 1XV's hiding in the leagues what other choice is there?

Bren · **Reply #4 on:** June 30, 2016, 08:19:54 PM

This is a good move, although too late for this season which is a shame.

IMO good second teams should be allowed to play in the Yorkshire leagues. I don't think this will result in smaller clubs folding as league numbers will swell and Yorkshire 5 will have enough teams in so they are not finished at Christmas and then trying to get a cup competition up for more games.

Good to see the YRFU looking at an issue which had been around for a while and looks likely to be around for a few more years.

avinastella · **Reply #5 on:** June 30, 2016, 08:54:47 PM

It's not come from the YRFU, further up the food chain.

My personal view is that i don't see it a major problem. I think only a few clubs will take up the option - if allowed.
There will be a need for strict control of players and number of 1st team appearances and the such like to prevent clubs stacking a team with 'ringers'. I foresee points deductions aplenty if not administered correctly.

I'd say most clubs rely on a number of 2nd teamers throughout a season due to injury, form, availability etc. Putting their 2nd team almost 'out of bounds' could be problematic.

Also, do 2nd teamers want to be committed to the long league/cup season that comes with being in a formal RFU League?
I know the merits are a league structure but there is less regulation there.

Yes, it would help the lower divisions, but would it be a short term fix or long term?

old style prop · **Reply #6 on:** July 01, 2016, 01:09:40 AM

Cant see how it would help down at Y5 if teams like wharfedale or Harrogate 2s joined, it would just be a season of them winning by 70 plus points with a few 100 plus scores which would not develop their players and would just demoralize the players on the end of the hiding. These teams would probable be fine in Y1 or Y2 but that would mean demoting an extra team to make way for them. I Would also consider the more frequent big swings in quality levels at a clubs second team from year to year, finally and maybe somewhat cynical but i could think of some bigger clubs that would love their 2s to play in leagues whilst they are winning by big scores every weeks but the moment they started getting beaten all of a sudden the team would stop playing (you see it in the merit leagues now).

Overall whilst there is a small chance this could prove beneficial in terms of increasing numbers in the leagues for me the downsides outweigh the benefits whilst also risking losing more 1st teams from the lower end of the leagues, as a team that is just about holding it together finally throws the towel in when they are beaten 140-0 by a National league 2nd team.

Honestly cant see the need for a change here as if higher clubs wish to do this at present there is already a process in place which in reality involves entering the clubs 3rd team under a different name. Experience from seeing this happen is that these teams tend to be short lived, generally folding once the going gets tough or if the 1st team is struggling.

Hope the RFU don't poor half a million pounds down the drain on this idea like the did with the last consultation process we went through.

kronos47 · **Reply #7 on:** July 01, 2016, 06:51:01 AM

I have read the letter. I think it's a good idea.
The question about which league you should be in based on comparative results, for example we, Sheffield 2nd XV have played Thorne 1st team a few times over the recent years, with results being close so I would assume should the suggestion go ahead we would be in Y2 or Y3.
Removing the mismatch issue, one would hope.

ye olde 9 · **Reply #8 on:** July 01, 2016, 12:09:00 PM

I am sure this already exists in the SE leagues, with rule like the gap as to 3 leagues between 1st and 2nds. I played in Kent and I am sure that all 3 teams at the club were in the league structure.

Sail By · **Reply #9 on:** July 01, 2016, 12:35:50 PM

For record I am totally against this as I believe that league rugby at 2nd team level and merit league rugby promotes cliques within clubs.
I think that this would ruin the traditional values of club rugby.

I am not at all stuck in the mud as I am looking how we could look at integrating sevens or U21's within club rugby to help move with what the kids want. Surely we should be asking the 18-24 year olds what is the future if our game rather than seeing which 2nd team has the highest place in the league??

What will happen if it gets the goe ahead.... all the national league clubs will pilfer the Y1-3 clubs for players and destroy some clubs.

Sycamore · **Reply #10 on:** July 01, 2016, 01:01:54 PM

Clubs are already being destroyed just some people dont want to admit it.

You ask 18-24 year olds what they are doing in todays world? Usually working or shopping with the misses on a Saturday.

fish · **Reply #11 on:** July 01, 2016, 03:52:48 PM

Poor idea they're already in leagues and still struggle to honour the fixture, with the exception of a few that is.

avinastella · **Reply #12 on:** July 01, 2016, 04:21:08 PM

Quote from: Sail By on July 01, 2016, 12:35:50 PM

For record I am totally against this as I believe that league rugby at 2nd team level and merit league rugby promotes cliques within clubs.
I think that this would ruin the traditional values of club rugby.

I am not at all stuck in the mud as I am looking how we could look at integrating sevens or U21's within club rugby to help move with what the kids want. Surely we should be asking the 18-24 year olds what is the future if our game rather than seeing which 2nd team has the highest place in the league??

What will happen if it gets the goe ahead.... all the national league clubs will pilfer the Y1-3 clubs for players and destroy some clubs.

Good luck with that. They all had the chance last week but only 36% of them could be bothered.

Bren · **Reply #13 on:** July 01, 2016, 05:39:36 PM

There are only a handful of second teams that have consistently shown over the past 5 years that they could handle the Yorkshire Leagues. Let them play and try it - should they wish.

I would put them in a suitable league to avoid mismatches. I realise some may think that unfair etc and that's a fair point but that's a process worth paying for more competitive matches.

I do think the restructure carried in the merit Leagues is good but the premiership will still end up with a huge split and teams blobbing/getting kicked out. A handful of second teams have out grown that league IMO.

fish · **Reply #14 on:** July 01, 2016, 08:16:23 PM

If they're blobbing in merit leagues then it doesn't bode well for the main leagues. The problem is if the 1st team is nit doing well all the will do is pack their 2nd team to win. It happens now , you play some sides who rotate between 2&3rd teams one week they call it a 2nd team the next week they call it av3rd team a stuff some unsuspecting sided. With the exception of wharfedale, hull Ionians and s couple of other teams, who maybe should be looking wider a field. I think its s recipe for disaster for the Yorkshire leagues. I'm not saying they don't need some thought but nit this.

2nd Teams in Leagues

Author Topic: 2nd Teams in Leagues (Read 8365 times)

avinastella

2nd Teams in Leagues

old style prop

Re: 2nd Teams in Leagues

avinastella

Re: 2nd Teams in Leagues

Sycamore

Re: 2nd Teams in Leagues

Bren

Re: 2nd Teams in Leagues

avinastella

Re: 2nd Teams in Leagues

old style prop

Re: 2nd Teams in Leagues

kronos47

Re: 2nd Teams in Leagues

ye olde 9

Re: 2nd Teams in Leagues

Sail By

Re: 2nd Teams in Leagues

Sycamore

Re: 2nd Teams in Leagues

fish

Re: 2nd Teams in Leagues

avinastella

Re: 2nd Teams in Leagues

Bren

Re: 2nd Teams in Leagues

fish

Re: 2nd Teams in Leagues