$txt['mentions'] = 'Mentions'; $txt['scheduled_task_removeMentions'] = 'Remove seen mentions'; $txt['scheduled_task_desc_removeMentions'] = 'Automatically removes seen mentions older than the specified days'; Ask the Ref...

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Offline His Lordship

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Ask the Ref...
« on: November 26, 2012, 03:21:46 PM »
All, one of our members has had a great idea suggesting a thread where players and supporters can ask questions that would be answered by a referee. The answers would all be given under laws and any IRB/RFU guidance/clarifications. The usual 'ref bashing' or in some cases 'ref praising' can continue to thrive on other parts of the forum - but we can keep this one for genuine questions.

Offline pinkshirtedwhistler

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Re: Ask the Ref...
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2012, 05:56:30 PM »
Looking forward to this developing!

Offline theRef

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Re: Ask the Ref...
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2012, 07:43:28 PM »
Evening Gentleman and Ladies,

I would like to say a quick hello, I will be answering your questions on here as a resident referee.

I will be answering anything refereeing you wish, from Elite Level to the community level.  The answers will be based on up to date Law and Management guidance from the IRB and RFU.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Offline pinkshirtedwhistler

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Re: Ask the Ref...
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2012, 08:03:36 PM »
That's not like a referee to appoint himself as the font of all knowledge at the omission of all others!

One post in and The Ref is to be accepted as the sole arbiter of fact? Where are his ELRAs, his fitness test results, his fetching pink outfit?

I shall look forward to expressing my views from the sidelines (in the proper manner of course).



Offline theRef

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Re: Ask the Ref...
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2012, 08:31:05 PM »
That's not like a referee to appoint himself as the font of all knowledge at the omission of all others!

One post in and The Ref is to be accepted as the sole arbiter of fact? Where are his ELRAs, his fitness test results, his fetching pink outfit?

I shall look forward to expressing my views from the sidelines (in the proper manner of course).

I think I have enough experience and at a suitable level. The only pink shirt I have is the baby pink RFU awful one.  More than happy for you to express yourself.

Offline Kimo

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Re: Ask the Ref...
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2012, 09:02:12 PM »
What fitness tests do refs have to undertake? And what levels must they achieve?
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Offline theRef

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Re: Ask the Ref...
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2012, 09:24:58 PM »
What fitness tests do refs have to undertake? And what levels must they achieve?

Kimo,

It depends on the level you talk about.
IRB have a number of fitness tests including body fat measurements. 

Yorkshire this year have introduced the YoYo test, but some where still using the Jam test, a kind of bleep test in a triangle.
JAM (mins)   NE1 =13m 30s   
Yorkshire 1 12m 30s   
Yorkshire 2 11m 30s   
Yorkshire 3 10m 30s   
Yorkshire 4 9m 30s

Other test include, rowing and a Cooper test.

The idea this year in Yorkshire was to have a base test, and then work on it for the future.  I think the level will be harder over the coming years.  Some societies still have no testing.

Offline old style prop

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Re: Ask the Ref...
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2012, 09:34:00 PM »
One that has always baffled me is the use of Yellow cards for Punching. As a player with limited understanding of the laws i always understood punching was a straight red, but have over the years probable seen more yellows dished out for throwing a punch then reds. 

Therefore question is: Is a clearly thrown and connected punch an area for interpretation by the refs or should it be a straight red ?

Offline theRef

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Ask the Ref...
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2012, 10:03:38 PM »
One that has always baffled me is the use of Yellow cards for Punching. As a player with limited understanding of the laws i always understood punching was a straight red, but have over the years probable seen more yellows dished out for throwing a punch then reds. 

Therefore question is: Is a clearly thrown and connected punch an area for interpretation by the refs or should it be a straight red ?

We have 2 issues here, the punch and management.

Foul play comes under Law10 and punching
10.4 Dangerous play and misconduct
(a) Punching or striking. A player must not strike an opponent with the fist or arm, including the elbow, shoulder, head or knee(s).
Sanction: Penalty Kick

Now under law 10, the referee has 3 choices.
Penalty kick
PK - Yellow Card
PK - Red Card

Either one of them is correct in Law.

My stance is a punch that connects to the face of a player is a Red Card, the RFU disciplinary guys also think that.  We need this out of the game.

Some referees are scared to give reds, it's a big decision.  Some think its looks bad on them.  Sometimes I even think the older guys accept it as part of the game.

A small scuffle of handbags on the floor that is not clear landed punches may get yellows.

As I have said though, throw and connect to the head and it should be red.

Offline Radio Gnome

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Re: Ask the Ref...
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2012, 08:13:02 AM »

Therefore question is: Is a clearly thrown and connected punch an area for interpretation by the refs or should it be a straight red ?

This is of course on the basis that the referee gets as clear a view as you (or the spectators do).

When we issue a RC we have to be certain who it was, certain it landed etc. Such things are put in the sending off reports and as such we need to be sure that what we are writing is exactly what happened.

That said in my games where I have seen punch(es) to the head land, the puncher has been given a RC.
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Offline Red Horseman

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Re: Ask the Ref...
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2012, 09:32:24 AM »
Scabs had a player red carded a few weeks back for swinging a punch that completely missed ! How does that work?
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Offline theRef

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Ask the Ref...
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2012, 09:54:58 AM »
This also would come under Law 10
(m) Acts contrary to good sportsmanship. A player must not do anything that is against the spirit of good sportsmanship in the playing enclosure.

So again the options are PK, PK YC or PK RC

The sanction would depend on the temper of the game.  If a well natured game a YC may suffice, if a niggly game a RC may be warranted.

It is also a possibility that because of angles, the referee may have thought it struck.

Offline Batman

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Re: Ask the Ref...
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2012, 10:10:50 AM »
How are ref's finding the new interchange system ? Have you had any problems with it ? Would you like to revert back to the traditional three subs system or keep the interchange system.
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Offline theRef

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Ask the Ref...
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2012, 11:53:22 AM »
How are ref's finding the new interchange system ? Have you had any problems with it ? Would you like to revert back to the traditional three subs system or keep the interchange system.
Most of my games are still 3 subs.

The times when I do have to do interchanges it's not a problem.  The only problem is when the coaches shout ref sub and then it's relying on them telling you how many without stopping the game.
I am a believer that all sides should provide a "4th" official to monitor it. As its the clubs responsibility when it goes wrong.

Offline pinkshirtedwhistler

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Re: Ask the Ref...
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2012, 02:09:21 PM »
The Federation did ask clubs to be responsible for providing someone to monitor interchanges , or have both coaches checking on each other.

It is one of those areas that could cause problems if it goes wrong and the referee is held as responsible. Interchanges are regulations, not laws and therefore should be adhered to and administered by clubs.